Video introduction to this year's online edition of The Evangelist magazine.
Updated: Nov 19, 2020
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Interview by Scott Coleman (Second Year student, Diocese of Arundel and Brighton)
Father, can you tell me what Wonersh was like when you were a student there? What were the best bits, what were the most difficult bits?
I think the community life was good. When I went there were about ninety in the house. The following year another thirty came, to make one hundred and twenty - too large a house, really. But we had a very good community life. We came with different expectations.
I arrived in 1965 at the same time as the last session
of Vatican II. The Church was in ferment at that time, and it all seemed rather positive to me at the beginning, because the tensions that have arisen since weren’t there. But I would say we were certainly excited by the Council at that time.
I was interested to read in the seminary history about the sense of optimism at the time, and especially about the television studio with which you were involved…
That came a bit later, with Fr John Stapleton, who had been involved with broadcasting and worked at the Catholic Radio and TV Centre in London. He came to join the staff at Wonersh to lead on communications. The idea was to try to recognise the importance of mass media, and to teach us how to use them, so money was spent to build a television studio in the 1970s, with cameras and equipment so that the students could use it. Many, I think, couldn’t see the point, but that’s always the case with new things. But it was about how to develop skills to communicate. It was valuable in its time, but with the way technology advances, you don’t need a big television studio now, with huge cameras; things can be done much more easily. But it was an important statement of intention.
It’s good for us today to learn how to use social media etc for the sake of the Gospel…
I think some students got very… (The doorbell rings as he goes to greet a parishioner). There was a slight temptation to be tempted by the toys, if you like. There is a danger of knowing how to communicate but having nothing to communicate. Hence the importance of serious study and regular prayer.
What was your first curacy like?
I only ever had one curacy; I was with Fr Scarborough in Caterham, which had a parish priest and two curates in those days. He was a wonderful man; he’d been an army chaplain during the war, captured at Dunkirk, and, more than captured: he’d turned down a place in a boat to come back, so that he could stay with the men. He finished up in Colditz. He was a wonderful priest and a very fine example. I was very blessed. The first curacy is terribly important. It can make or break a man.
Did you feel well prepared when you arrived, or were you nervous and uncertain?
I probably felt more prepared than I should have done (!) in that I wasn’t as prepared as I thought I was. But that’s always the case. You learn on the job; you can’t be prepared totally. But having a good presbytery that we lived in helped. Fr Weston, the other curate, had been in my home parish, Leatherhead, until six months earlier, so I knew him very well. And Fr Scarborough was a great character, with a great sense of humour. If I could be half as good as him I’d be doing well.
And after that - did you go to be a parish priest…?
No, no, in those days one couldn’t be a parish priest until one was much older! No, Bishop Michael Bowen sent me to Rome to study moral theology. The original plan was that I would have gone straight from the seminary, but Michael Bowen wisely thought that, for moral theology particularly, the experience of parish life and hearing confessions would be useful, which it was. So I spent three years in Rome at the English College where Cormac [later Cardinal Murphy O’Connor] was Rector.
And what other things after that? [Fr Tony lists his appointments in order, as I’m increasingly impressed by the variety of jobs he’s undertaken and his evident happiness in simply being in a parish:]
Taught moral theology at Wonersh for five years.
In London working for the Bishops’ Conference first on liturgy, then for the Catholic Media Office. He was Press Officer for the Catholic Church in England and Wales and worked for Cardinal Hume, which was a great experience.
Keymer, parish priest: 7 years.
Sacred Heart Hove, parish priest: 5 years.
Sabbatical year in Berkeley, California.
Seaford, parish priest: 8 years.
Bognor, parish priest: 8 years.
Sabbatical year at St Leonard's and in Rome
Ashtead, parish priest: since 2016. Bishop Richard Moth made Fr Tony a Canon on the day of his induction as parish priest, and also Episcopal Vicar for Ecumenism. He was also asked by Archbishop Bernard Longley to be part of the English Anglican-Roman Catholic Committee (English ARC) as Catholic co-secretary.
What has been most successful about your ecumenical work, and what have you found most difficult?
This will take about an hour and a half! I think the challenge is that there was a real optimism in the 70s that reconciliation between Rome and Canterbury could be achieved. Looking back, there was a naivety on our part about that. I think probably we were overly sanguine in our attitudes to the Church of England and Anglicanism in that we didn’t fully take on board then how comprehensive it tries to be. So, after Agreed Statements, each Church was asked to comment on them. Our response was to the question, “Does this statement accurately and adequately express the faith of the Church?” Whereas the Anglicans were answering a different question: “Can you be an Anglican and hold this?”, not “Do you have to believe this?” Now that’s a very different question. Now when Pope St John Paul II came in 1982, there was a great deal of optimism, that was the high point.
We have the imperative of the Lord’s command to pray for unity, and therefore we have to pray for it, and work for it, even if we don’t see how it’s going to happen. So now, in English ARC, we are seeing how much we can work together. The Anglican-Roman Catholic International Commission is doing theological work, which Cardinal Cormac used to call ‘money in the bank’; it’s valuable; it doesn’t amount to an agreement, but it clearly gets us behind the Reformation language of controversy, to how we can understand each other better. That’s a work in hand that will go on for a long time. And it helps us see what we can do together.
Despite the widespread nature of the Anglican communion, we do what we can together: we work together and pray together. For example, at our last actual meeting of ARC, we were able to discuss the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA), and to share at quite a deep level our experience in facing up to a terrible chapter in the life of both our churches.
What hopes do you have for the Church and for priestly ministry in the next generation?
My experience of meeting the current generation of students gives me encouragement, because I think there is a certain level of realism and openness amongst the students, both of which are important. Also, there is a strong Catholic identity. Ecumenism teaches us to bring the riches of our tradition to the other, so there’s no question of denying the Real Presence or the role of Our Lady. I hope that the present generation will be good listeners. We need to take time to listen to people if we are to help them. We need to be ready to adapt to the needs of the time. This means knowing our faith and its demands and being able to distinguish between what is essential and what is not.
18 Nov 2020
Updated: Nov 18, 2020
Gary Carter
In these turbulent times it is difficult not to encounter depictions of what media commentators call an ‘intergenerational conflict’. While current discussions on the environment are valuable, what has been concerning is the toxicity of public attacks from certain quarters. They attack ‘boomers’ whilst dismissing young people’s concerns as hysterical and illegitimate on any matter. For us as Catholics, this has to be troubling. Our calling must include the love of neighbour and living as one, united in His body. As society is getting progressively angrier, how can we bring the generations together in the love of Christ?
This is a question that Pope Francis has evidently pondered. In Christus Vivit (the Apostolic Exhortation to Young People), the Holy Father comments:
“The world has never benefited, nor will it ever benefit, from a rupture between generations. That is the siren song of a future without roots and origins. It is the lie that would have you believe that only what is new is good and beautiful. When intergenerational relationships exist, a collective memory is present in communities, as each generation takes up the teachings of its predecessors and in turn bequeaths a legacy to its successors. In this way, they provide frames of reference for firmly establishing a new society. As the old saying goes: “If the young had knowledge and the old strength, there would be nothing they could not accomplish”.’ (Christus Vivit,191).
How do we then address the ‘rupture’? Even without our current extraordinary circumstances, grumblings between generations seem part of everyday life, exemplified by attitudes such as ‘in my day’, ‘it isn’t your day anymore’ or ‘when it is my day?’ These attitudes ignore a fundamental truth: the ‘day’ is the Lord’s and we are all living in it. Pope Francis seems to agree when he refers to St Paul ordering children to ‘obey their parents’ as well as the order from parents not to ‘discourage’ their children so that they ‘do not lose heart’ (Colossians 3:20-21; Christus Vivit,15). These verses remind us that intergenerational strife is not new. For St Paul, all Christians are to love, for when we love we live in ‘perfect harmony’ (Colossians 3:14, Christus Vivit,13). As natural as it can be to fall into hostile attitudes, we must remember the love that we are all called to live out.
The life and ministry of Our Lord can prove helpful as we meditate on how to live this out. St Peter is often depicted as an older man, who brings with him the experiences of a fisherman’s life, while St John is depicted as much younger. This reminds us that the other disciples would have been of different ages with differing personalities. They would have enjoyed life together, but they would also have irritated each other on occasions. This is the group that Jesus wanted as his disciples. They weren’t selected for reasons of demographics but for their response to the person of Jesus himself. At the Transfiguration, St Peter and St John (as well as St James) are present with Jesus (Luke 9:28). The young and the old are both there and are equal in their astonishment at the person of Jesus. This must be what we live out as Catholics. For this to become a reality, we would do well to go back to the words of the Holy Father:
“There are times when all our youthful energy, dreams and enthusiasm can flag because we are tempted to dwell on ourselves and our problems, our hurt feelings and our grievances. Don’t let this happen to you! You will grow old before your time. Each age has its beauty, and the years of our youth need to be marked by shared ideals, hopes and dreams, great horizons that we can contemplate together.” (Chistus Vivit,166)
For us as adults, no matter our age, we must work to make sure that we are interiorly youthful and to encourage others to remain so. With the phrase ‘you will grow old before your time’, Pope Francis is not being negative about those who are physically old but those have fostered an interior agedness. We have all met elderly people who seem to be so much younger in spirit than their age (I am very grateful to have family members with this attitude). How has this happened? By cultivating the fruits of the Spirit to remain spiritually youthful whilst becoming experienced in years. This encouragement is not only for the old but for the young. We should support our young people to air their opinions and get involved for the good of all God’s people as they respond to the universal call to holiness. When their opinions are expressed, they may be more rough than refined, but they still provide insight and challenge. The insidious nature of this generational conflict is that some forces are working to take away the ‘infinite horizon’ of what the young can do and replace it with blame and grievances towards the old. This leads to a defensive reaction from older people and a spiral into division.
Praise God that whilst this seems to be very visible across our news websites and newspapers we can, without too much effort, think of examples close to home which prove ‘together, we can learn from one another, warm hearts, inspire minds with the light of the Gospel, and lend new strength to our hands’ (Christus Vivit,199). One only has to think of how all generations love and serve each other with joy - in places of pilgrimage such as Lourdes or in our parish communities - to know that this can actually be lived out. We see so many young people who seek the advice of the spiritually wise amongst the ‘assembly of the elders’ (cf. Sirach 3:34-46; John 10:10). How many of our elder brothers and sisters in the faith take great heart and joy from the enthusiasm of their younger peers? How wonderful it is when we see those who have lived the Catholic faith for many years hand it on, cultivating a love of the Mass, prayer and the Catholic way of living. When we can live out this witness, we truly can bring about the vision of Pope Francis, challenge division and heal our hurting society.
Together, we can learn from one another, warm hearts, inspire minds with the light of the Gospel, and lend new strength to our hands. (Christus Vivit,199).
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